Small Business, Small Budget? How to Make it Work for You

0:00:01 – Announcer

You are listening to the National University Podcast.

0:00:09 – Kimberly King

Hello, I’m Kimberly King. Welcome to the National University Podcast, where we offer an holistic approach to student support, well-being and success: the Whole Human education. We put passion into practice by offering accessible, achievable higher education to lifelong learners.

Today we are talking about marketing trends when you’re on a small budget. We’re actually getting two different viewpoints from the nonprofit and the for-profit. So this will be really interesting. But according to a recent article in Forbes magazine, in 2025, customers are expecting more from brands. They’re no longer satisfied with a great product. They want to feel connected, valued and inspired. For small businesses, this shift isn’t just a challenge. It’s a chance to stand out among competitors.

Did you know that 86% of consumers say authenticity is a key factor when deciding which brands they trust? That’s where small businesses have an edge. Whether it’s a handwritten thank you note or a personalized shopping experience, small businesses can offer the kind of genuine interactions that big brands often struggle to replicate. Really interesting and great conversation coming up on today’s show.

On today’s episode, we’re discussing marketing on a small budget, and joining us is Dr. Hatem Bata. He’s a professor at National University and received degrees in communication studies and education, plus a bachelor’s of science in communications and computer science from West Virginia University. He went on to earn a master’s degree in Integrated Marketing from American University and another Master’s of Education in Counseling from Albany State and his doctorate in Philosophy from the University of Toledo.

Also with us today is Dr. Kay Zhang, and she is a seasoned marketing professor and program director with over 20 years of teaching experience in the higher education setting and more than a decade of volunteer work, helping nonprofit organizations craft smart, effective marketing strategies. She holds a PhD in marketing from the University of Alabama and a master’s degree in statistics and sociology, and as well serves on the executive board of directors of marketing for several nonprofit organizations.

As a dissertation chair at NU, she’s mentored doctoral students exploring the power of social media and digital marketing for small businesses, research that directly informs her practical approach.  She’s passionate about helping mission-driven and budget-conscious brands maximize impact without maximizing their resources or maxing out. I should say we welcome you both to the podcast. Thank you so much. What impressive backgrounds. How are you?

0:03:01 – Doctor Kay Zhang

Good. Thank you for having us.

0:03:04 – Doctor Hatem Bata

Thank you for having us.

0:03:06 – Kimberly King

Yes, great. Why don’t you fill our audience in a little bit on your mission and your work before we get to today’s show topic? Either one of you can go.

0:03:08 – Doctor Hatem Bata

Okay.

0:03:10 – Kay Zhang

Because Dr. Bata’s name was mentioned first, I’ll let him go first.

0:03:14 – Doctor Hatem Bata

Okay, so what I do mostly is that- my speciality is in social media. I do a lot of research in social media and I also recently opened my own small business online, so I am experiencing what is happening right now with marketing on the budget.

0:03:38 – Kimberly King

Excellent, and how about you, doctor?

0:03:41 – Kay Zhang

So I’m passionate about teaching. So I have actually two passions in my life. One is teaching and the other one is nonprofit. So I’m actually involved in both and I love making an influence on students’ lives in general. I also love helping nonprofit grow the audience, and I’m involved in several nonprofits that focus on event that promotes cultural and, you know, cultural experiences and diversity, and that’s like two passions of mine.

0:04:14 – Kimberly King

Excellent. Well, thank you so much. I’m excited to hear more. And today we are talking about marketing on a limited budget, and I think that’s so relevant. You know, we’ve seen it go from the pendulum swings from one side to the next, so I think this is a really good time to talk about marketing on a budget. So I’m going to start with you, Dr. Bata, to begin with. How would you define marketing on a budget? And in today’s highly competitive digital landscape, especially lots of competition there?

0:04:47 – Doctor Hatem Bata

So as an entrepreneur, you are starting, you have limited financial resources, so you want to be careful where you’re going to put or invest your money. You want to make sure that you prioritize, create a priority based on what you are able to afford or not. You might not afford, so you have to know your audience, know your customer and then plan your digital footprint based on that, because you cannot have- you know, there are- you know you cannot be on Facebook and Instagram and TikTok and build a website and all of this are going to cost you a lot. So you want to know where your customers are and basically create that promotional P of marketing on the budget, and also what type of product you are going to create and how you’re going to create it based on your customer needs, and also how you’re going to price it. And also, let’s say you cannot afford the store, so let’s assume digital business, so maybe your place could be online.

0:06:00 – Kimberly King

Excellent, and those are all really key ingredients to what we’re all dealing with today with all of that social media outreach, so this is a really great topic right now. So what are the key principles or the mindset shifts that businesses should adopt when working with limited marketing resources?

0:06:15 – Kay Zhang

Yeah, so I will take on this one. So I think one of the first things in terms of mindset shift is that marketing is not about who spends the most. Of course, when you have a large budget, it does help. But in today’s digital world, especially with the social media landscape and everything, it’s not about who spends the most, but it’s really about who connects the best. So today, the more important thing is having a clarity, having that priority, like Dr. Bata has mentioned. You have to have clarity, you have to have a connection, you have to have consistency, you have to be consistent. It’s not about trying to reach everyone, it’s not trying to be there all the time, but it’s about being at the right time and reaching the right people at the right time. So it’s again, not about how much money we spend, but it’s about how we can be smart about it.

0:07:17 – Kimberly King

And I love that answer. I think you know really, it’s that branded marketing and really being able to- I come from TV and radio landscapes- so that, marketing advertising, those dollar signs, they cost so much money. And now you’re right, you can own it yourself as long as you know who your audience is. So, I think this is again so key in today’s environment. Dr. Bata, in your experience, what are some of the most common mistakes that small businesses or startups make when attempting to market on a tight budget?

0:07:50 – Doctor Hatem Bata

They try to bite more than what they can chew. They want to be everywhere, so they overspend on the promotional fee. So they want to be on Facebook, on Instagram, on TikTok. They build a state of arts search engine optimization. They try to do everything at once and then they focus on the promotion P and then they don’t have money for the product P so they were able to get a lot of bangs and make the customer very excited, and then they don’t have money to create a quality product, and then the customer gets disappointed. They have heard all of that on Facebook or on social media and then the customer gets a product and it’s not what it’s meant to be, because they ran out of money in developing the product.

0:08:46 – Kimberly King

That’s such a good point too. It’s right, and I always feel, like you know, I have a small PR firm and it’s very boutique, but it feels like marketing and PR are always the first to go. When you’re dealing with big companies, right? Or anybody, they just go well, we don’t need this, when, in fact, they need to flip the script, don’t they? And realize that your marketing is going to make or break you. So, Dr. Zhang, when funds are limited, then how should businesses prioritize their marketing activities, and is there a framework or method that you recommend?

0:09:18 – Kay Zhang

So I think I just want to mention that Dr. Bata has a small business himself, and I have served nonprofit and trying to market our events for a very long time. So we are both working with limited resources, limited budget. So early on I mentioned clarity. Having that clarity, having that connection, having that consistency. You have to prioritize. And, like Dr. Bata has mentioned, you can’t be everywhere, you know, doing everything. You have to prioritize. And that starts with setting goals and objectives very, very clearly, and with short-term goals, what do you want to achieve?

A lot of times, you know, like Dr. Bata has mentioned, small businesses or people or businesses, organizations with limited resources try to do too much at once and then fall off. It’s more important to do small things but over a long period of time, consistently. If you have a weekly program trying to, you know, focus on one thing at a time, not five things at a time, but one thing at a time, what do you want to achieve within six months? And do that within six months consistently, every week or every month, and do that consistently and then measure the results and then see what’s the next step.

So I would suggest take a step by step. You know, don’t chew too much that you can. You know, bite too much that you can chew. much that you can. So definitely prioritize with top priorities and then do small steps and consistent reach.

0:10:54 – Kimberly King

And that is so true. I think we all try. You know we want to multitask, we want to tell you everything, but it’s such a it’s it’s really important. You kind of led me right in to my next question about the importance of setting those clear marketing objectives, because you know, and also I’ve found, that maybe the person you’re working with or the company that you’re working with, they don’t necessarily have that clear mindset either. So it’s up to us to really pare it down and to you know, when you’re working, especially with a small budget, how can those objectives be measured effectively? That seems to be a little tricky sometimes, doesn’t it? Dr. Bata, I’ll ask you first.

0:11:38 – Doctor Hatem Bata

Okay, so, as Dr. Zhang said about, the idea of objectives is very important. So one of the things that you need to do when you are launching a new product is about the education. You want to make sure that the customer is educated, if it’s totally new to the market innovation. If it’s already, the customer knows about it, you want to focus on the launching and the awareness. So make sure that the customer knows that you exist, that you base as a type of services or the type of product that you are providing, and also you want to create a unique selling proposition. What you are doing that is different from the competitors and you want to try to educate the customer how this product is different and they are going to improve their lives.

0:12:39 – Kimberly King

Okay, and do you have anything that you want to add to that, Dr. Zhang?

0:12:44 – Kay Zhang

I’m going to put on my professor hat for a second. If you ever take in a marketing course, and we teach this in graduate level courses, so we always stress that when you set goals and objectives, they have to be SMART goals. Smart is acronyms that stands for Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Relevant and Time-bound. So the goal is whatever you set has to fit those five characteristics in order for it to be a good objective. I think it’s especially relevant for small businesses and nonprofits.

0:13:19 – Kimberly King

I’ve never even heard of that. So I love that.

0:13:23 – Kay Zhang

Okay, very good. Smart goals yeah, smart objectives.

0:13:29 – Kimberly King

Yeah, I love that. That’s something that we can always use. Thank you. So what are some low-cost or free digital tools that you recommend for businesses that are looking to manage their own marketing efforts?

0:13:39 – Doctor Hatem Bata

First of all, you can use most entrepreneurs can create a free corporate account on Facebook. It depends also what you are trying to do. Again, it has, as Dr. Zhang said, it has to be specific, measurable, achievable, time-bound and realistic. Based on those objectives, you have to basically choose media. There is a lot of options, but I can give you an example. You can use Facebook free account. You can use Instagram. It depends on your product. Also, you can use video like TikTok, or create a YouTube channel, maybe build a cheaper website. You can do it by Squarespace or other means. You can build a website. Then you might, if you have more money, you might do search engine optimization and list the website on Google. If your business is B2B, you list on Salesforce. The possibilities are infinite. You can do a Twitter campaign. Depends on what product and what’s your objectives.

0:14:58 – Kimberly King

So I have kind of another question, along with what you’re just talking about, about how do small businesses, the owners, how do they prioritize which kind of marketing avenue to start with and when to pivot? So you kind of answered that a little bit as far as with social media. But is there a time for them to pivot, in all of this when they choose that- I guess low budget or something that can help the small business owners?

0:15:24 – Dr. Kay Zhang

So Dr. Bata may know a little bit more about- I don’t do research in social media. This is all from my experience and also as the dissertation chair. I have several students who have written dissertation and done research. I think it has been proven that short form videos are the most effective at reaching audience. So there are different- so if you again, it really depends on the objective. If the goal is to reach is to grow the audience, TikTok might be the, you know, maybe the best to post videos and reach that audience. And it also depends on what kind of videos you want to make. Right, you want to make something that’s engaging, something that people can take away with how-to videos, educational videos, behind-the-scenes videos, things that pique interest of people, give people a reason.

So in marketing, I talk about this in my class as well, we have a five-second rule. It doesn’t matter what kind of media it is it’s a print media or video… we usually have today, we are all short, we all have short attention spans. So within five seconds, if you can grab my attention, I’m going to stay and watch this. Or five seconds, not interested, scroll next, right. So today it’s getting that audience engaged within that first five seconds is really, really important.

Going back to the objectives, if you do have those measurable things that you can actually evaluate and then we can, based on the numbers. And Google Analytics is free, and Dr. Bata has mentioned Facebook. I actually I’m in charge of the social media account for non-profit organizations that we manage, so I can actually see the numbers. It’s. Facebook gives you all sorts of numbers, all sorts of data, so I’m constantly monitoring that, and you can also choose to do a specific demographic group. So monitoring, measuring your results, is the key. You will know when to pivot. I think the data will tell you when to pivot.

0:17:29 – Kimberly King

And you know what, and that’s such a good point. It’s now I don’t know that that access to the analytics were always available through social media, but I do know that now and it does really help out. I don’t know if there is again, I’m throwing this out there just literally because I came from the media background for broadcast television and radio. So when I work with my PR firm I try to blend everything via social, via either local, national or global media as well, to integrate. Is there a way, is there some sort of a way to track, obviously social, but now, when you’re integrating, like old school media, is there a way to see numbers on that or to pair those together? And again, it’s all really about the checks and balances with, especially the small businesses to say, hey, I got you, you know, an interview on NBC or whatever it is you know. But then to balance that other than just letting them know when you, you know, say, hey, this is what we did this week or this month or something.

0:18:33 – Kay Zhang

Yeah, I know some. There are some. We’re less non-profit. We’re looking into some apps actually that actually offer that to non-profit organizations that can track, because we do a lot of fundraising without. Without fundraising we can’t do anything because, you know, our budget is from the fundraising. So there are some apps and vendors that claim to have that. You know there are a number of different ones and of course, some are better than others. Some charge a fee that we can’t, we don’t want to pay, and so I think there are, as we speak, more apps and platforms that offer that kind of one-stop shop, so to speak, that allows you to track different you know progress of different things. We’re still looking into that, so I’m relatively new in that space. Dr. Bata may have some ideas on that.

0:19:22 – Doctor Hatem Bata

So the metrics that you usually use in social media is engagement metrics. So let’s say, we try to measure how many is the number of shares, the number of views for the videos, the number of likes. Also, we try to measure the number of people who commented positive and negative. You can do quantitative analysis and qualitative analysis, so there is always things that you can do for free. Google Analytics is also for free. Most of website hosts will also provide website statistics. So, for example, how many visitors visited the website, how much they stayed. And there is also the number of sales. Let’s say how many people like. Let’s say, you are selling something because I operate from a for-profit, so how much people bought the product also is a very good indicator of the success of your campaign.

0:20:27 – Kimberly King

Right. Money will talk, won’t it, when you see those dollars. So how much should a small business spend on their marketing and can it be a percentage of their sales, kind of going off what you just said of their sales, just the percentage of sales.

0:20:50 – Doctor Hatem Bata

As Dr. Zhang said, it has to be an objective method. The percentage of sales is not an effective way, especially because sometimes, let’s say, for example, your sales decrease, this means that you’re going to decrease spending on marketing while you actually need. You should have increased the percentage that you need to actually boost that product. So, or let’s say, you sell a lot, then you might be overspending on marketing. So no, it has to be based. The old way of doing things of, you know, percentage of sales or mirroring the competition is not the way for small entrepreneurs. The best way is by objective. What are you trying to accomplish? Based on the SMART goals and what type of business you are? So let’s say, we are selling products online, so we need to look at the type of customer, the demographics, their lifestyle and so on, and then pick the media and spend based on that.

0:21:58 – Doctor Kay Zhang

Yeah.

I don’t think there is a magic number or percentage that anybody can follow. For large organizations they might have an industry standard, but for small business and nonprofit, a lot of times it’s based on historical figures, like for me. For us, we always look at what did we spend last year? You know, how do we want to change? Are we comfortable with that number? You know, this year when we did our event, we we uh, totally, we decided to totally cut off the print media because, you know, nobody’s reading the newspapers anymore. So we cut, cut that off.

And then we actually uh, did, uh, more smart digital ads. Even the billboards these days are dynamic billboards, so you can choose the locations, you can choose the time when to show it. So you know. So it’s all I guess with small businesses and nonprofits it’s what you’re comfortable with and how much money you have and working off with that, and it’s always changing.

0:22:55 – Kimberly King

Right, I think this is a great dynamic between the two of you, with the nonprofit and the for-profit, and you know this is a great conversation. Can you discuss how businesses can leverage social media platforms strategically without spending excessively on play- paid ads, pardon me.

0:23:21 – Doctor Hatem Bata

So, again, based on what you are doing, it’s diverse. So let’s say, for example, from goods, you can leverage social media by creating an integrated marketing communication plan. So basically, you are trying to say one plus one, not equal to, but three or four, not equal to, by having a consistent message. So let’s say, the videos on the social media have to send the same as the information of the website has to be aligned with your press release online. It has to be aligned with your Twitter feed. So all of them, to be strategic, they have to have the same message. Let’s say, for example, you are trying to create a green product that you sell. So everything from social media to the website, to the videos on TikTok, to the YouTube channel, they all have to talk about the same unified message.

0:24:28 – Kay Zhang

Okay, I cannot agree more. The IMC, the Integrated Marketing Communication, tried and true. It applies to traditional media, it applies to still today, in social media, digital media. You have to have a consistent message. I completely agree.

0:24:49 – Kimberly King

Excellent. Are there particular platforms such as Instagram, LinkedIn or TikTok, which we’ve already discussed about but that you believe offer better ROI for budget-conscious marketers?

0:24:55 – Doctor Hatem Bata

It depends, again on what you are trying to do. It has to pick the media that matches your customers and you have to have the media that basically matches the products that you are working on. Again, there is no silver bullet for different entrepreneurs. So let’s say I’m selling a product would be different than someone that’s selling a service. Or let’s say, someone that also depends on the customer. Let’s say someone who is selling a product geared towards senior citizens, for example, maybe TikTok is not an option. Maybe Facebook is an option because more senior citizens like Facebook. So you have to know what your audience is.

0:25:45 – Kimberly King

That’s such a good point and it is funny just when people don’t really understand the social media realm, where people are, where your audience lives. So that’s a really good point. Um, is LinkedIn still- Is LinkedIn one of the biggest ones still for looking for jobs or for specifically business?

0:26:12 – Kay Zhang

Yes, I think, uh, if you’re looking for making professional connections, I think LinkedIn is probably still the best platform for that, and yeah, so how can storytelling this is?

0:26:23 – Kimberly King

I think this is really kind of where my bread and butter is- but storytelling and content creation- how can that serve as a powerful, cost-effective marketing tool for anybody that’s in the marketing arena?

0:26:38 – Doctor Kay Zhang

I think storytelling is all about authenticity. So it has to be authentic, it has to be organic, it has to be unique to your, to your product or service that you’re offering. So you know, we see in social media there are trends, and people are doing things, and then you just follow the trends and it’s going to be buried in the in the social media landscape. So you have to be, stay- you have to stay true to what your brand is, who you are, and so, like you know again, again, you know all I can draw on my experiences. So we primarily engage in Facebook and Instagram, especially during the event, and we, by the way, host the largest Asian festival in the country.

Uh, yeah, so the weekend we attract 150,000 people in person, but on social media I also engage. So I, because I’m the one who actually posts these things, and I also found that videos work the best. You can, you know we can record performances and foot court or whatever, and then people will engage and we actually also engage more than a hundred thousand views on social media alone. So, yeah, so I think you know you had to just constantly monitor and then stay true to what you are. You know I don’t follow any trends or anything. I just show what we’re offering, and what you know what kind of fun we have, we offer, and that tends to get the attention from the audience.

0:28:07 – Kimberly King

Do you see it, and it probably does depend on just your audience and what you’re shooting. But filming, is there any difference that you see when you go live versus where you put your content.

0:28:22 – Kay Zhang

Yes, I do go live several times, and over the years because I’ve been involved with the festival for like 15 years, and we celebrate our 31st year this year so over the years I’ve learned what actually, who are the top performers and who are, you know, the most dynamic performances. So I actually will look at the schedule, I’ll catch the performance and then go live. And then, because you know social media is so wonderful because it gives you all these numbers and you know that actually will confirm I said, okay, I know this performer is a big, you know, engaging performer. When I go live they usually have the largest, biggest number in terms of views. So it’s a lot of fun for me to play with and, you know, looking at the numbers and then be more engaged with the audience. So I love it.

0:29:15 – Kimberly King

That’s so great. And again, I mean who knew? Well, I mean social media. They’re looking from all over the world and you know, jumping on at whatever time it is. So I think that these are the positive sides of the social media access and especially for marketing. What role does user-generated content or influencer collaboration play in budget-friendly marketing strategies? I know that’s also a major trend, huh.

0:29:39 – Doctor Hatem Bata

This is important.

So, yeah, when people engage, they actually adds more authenticity, so this creates a buzz about the product.

So one of the things since you are talking about Asian culture, the Shen Yun group they actually got a lot of traction because of influencers going to the Shen Yun and seeing those shows and getting you know reviews, and you know, writing about them.

Because basically the best – actually – marketing is about customer experience, and if customers experience something and they can independently talk about what they saw, they are more likely to be believable and it’s more likely to be authentic and also, it’s less likely to be doubted.

But on the other hand, also because you have to realize that some influencers are not as ethical as they are supposed to be. So sometimes they will come and tell you know what, we will review your product, but you have to pay so much. So you need to also know that if you are going to do astroturfing and pay influencers in advance to review a product, you have to disclose that to build trust with your customer. So there is, you know, you have to be ethical, but it has to be organic also.

0:31:28 – Kimberly King

Yeah, there is a fine line and that’s true. I think some you know people are really onto that. Now they get it. But yeah, that is. It’s so interesting to see the waves. What are some traditional or grassroots marketing tactics that still work today, especially for local or niche businesses?

0:31:45 – Kay Zhang

Yeah, I can speak to that because we still do flyers, so we actually print. I still yeah, because I actually design and print the flyers myself using free tools, actually, free online tools and so we still do flyers, and still, right before our event, we still have yard signs and those tried and true things and you can see it right. So it’s about exposure. So we distribute the flyers as much as possible to business, like restaurants, when people go to restaurants and especially Asian restaurants, because it’s consistent theme and yeah, so those things still work.

0:32:27 – Kimberly King

Good to know, that’s good, but you know what, it’s true, as I’m listening to you say this, I think the one industry that uses flyers or the mailers or whatever, it seems to be realtors. I seem to get those in my mailbox all the time, or on my doorknob, you know, and so that’s good that you know. It’s true, it’s right in front of you, so even if you throw it in the trash, you still see it.

0:32:51 – Kay Zhang

I do want to mention that there is one key difference between the old flyers and today’s flyer is that we always have a QR code for people who don’t want to take that with them. They can always just scan the QR code and then there’s somewhere digitally available. So we are very conscious about that, and so, even for parking and for everything, we still have signs and everything, but we always have a QR code.

0:33:16 – Kimberly King

I love that what you’re saying too. Just a quick story- I was getting my passport renewed a few years ago and I was in line. The woman that was helping the poor lady in front of me the lady must’ve been probably in her maybe late seventies or early eighties, and the woman that was helping her set kept telling her just go on your app, just go take care of that. And I just keep thinking, gosh, you know, not everybody’s astute that own apps, and so I like that- you have a dual purpose on those flyers, because really you’re talking to the crowds and the seniors, I really do feel like we’ve just pushed them aside. So I love that, and they probably love getting the flyers too, that they can feel it and read it. Can building partnerships or engaging with the local community be an effective marketing tactic for small budgets? And if so how?

0:34:08 – Doctor Hatem Bata

You need to know where you are, so that’s good. Most of businesses are local, so you want to know, first of all, who are your partners. So, for example, my business is in healthcare, so I depend on local healthcare doctors. Doctors give me referrals to my clinic, so I depend on the private practitioners, and they get me referrals. So I need to know who are the local doctors that are in my area, physicians, and they have to refer clients to me so I can see them for my business. So locally I have to depend on that. I have to depend on other health care providers like nurses, also nurse practitioners, so I depend on referrals from other local people. So that’s why being local is very important, even something as simple as listing yourself in the phone book, even the old one, because, remember, a lot of my clients are seniors.

So some of them are digitally savvy because we don’t want to stereotype all seniors that they are digitally illiterate. But some prefer the old phone book, they go find Bata and then get me. Or others might prefer the local magazine. So it depends on who your customer and what objectives you are trying to reach.

0:35:53 – Kimberly King

Yeah, that’s a really good point. With limited financial resources, how should businesses measure the effectiveness of their marketing efforts to ensure that every dollar counts?

0:36:10 – Kay Zhang

So because of the nature of our, you know, I’m primarily working with nonprofits. So we again we set our budget and then we look at, you know, to see we always look at our attending and influence. So we also do a lot of outreach, so we do have our way of measuring. We have to answer to our sponsors, that’s another thing. So we have to each year have to report back to the sponsors if we actually spend their money. Because we don’t, we don’t produce anything physically or anything. So we have to make sure that we are actually achieving the goals that we said we did.

0:36:46 – Doctor Hatem Bata

For me, it’s about return on investment. what we do is we do surveys. Usually after I finish a client, I send them a link and [ask] how you have heard about us. So did they get referrals from doctors? Is it social media? And then I do return on investment. Seeing how many percentage you know, let’s say, for example, heard about me on Facebook, so I would put more attention, invest more on Facebook. How many looked at my website and got to me by website? How many did through my Psychology Today profile? So I would, you know, go and focus on more. And if you know very few people, for example, let’s say last time very few came through the billboard so I canceled that. I saw that that’s no one, like only two people out of 1,000 heard of me on the billboard. So I was like, okay, that sounds not very cost effective, so I canceled it.

0:38:05 – Kimberly King

That’s funny. My daughter was just driving from Northern California back into Southern California, where we are, and there was one particular town. Right through the Central Valley there was a billboard every mile with the same person but I was like I wonder how much that must have cost. She kept taking pictures and she said there’s another one and it’s the same exact billboard.

So it was a fact, but because there were several of them, I guess right, yeah, and that probably cut off an arm and a leg. A question so what would you say to a business that tried some of these marketing tips that didn’t work? And then how would they know why? How do they know if it doesn’t work? And like, if they just said, well, we tried this, this and this, yeah, like, how do they know and why wouldn’t it work?

0:38:53 – Kay Zhang

I guess you have to give it some time Again, going back to the SMART objectives and being consistent, having the clear goals, and it doesn’t have to be you know a long list of goals or objectives and you know, just pick one thing and then do it consistently to see if it works and doesn’t work, and, you know, move on to the next, uh, next goal. You have to be patient and be consistent. Uh, I guess that’s, uh, yeah, that’s. That would be my advice.

0:39:23 – Kimberly King

Yeah, and it’s true that that being able to pivot and hopefully you have an understanding small business person you know that or or company, uh, that they understand. Okay, if that one doesn’t work, then we just we switch it up and we come up with another one within the budget.

0:39:33 – Kay Zhang

Yeah.

0:39:37 – Kimberly King

Um, what are some early warning signs that a low budget marketing campaign may need to be adjusted or re-imagined? It’s kind of in that same vein, but how, I guess? What are those warning signs? How do you spot that?

0:39:49 – Doctor Hatem Bata

Sometimes it’s a customer feedback. So we talked about the promotional P, but don’t forget the product P. So let’s say, marketing also has a product P. So let’s say, for example, since I am in the healthcare business, some customers say we are not feeling better. Maybe then I need to change the product P, put more time available, maybe use different therapy techniques, maybe. So maybe the product P, that the earliest you get the earliest complaints from the product P, or sometimes even the price P. They’d say, a lot of times, customers would say I cannot afford the therapy sessions, so maybe we can negotiate the payment plan. So one of the- So the promotion fee will take time to see the effect of it. So you might, you know it will take time to see if it’s working or not, but the price and the product fees, you can see very quickly their effect.

0:41:10 – Kimberly King

So, or did you want to add something, Dr. Zhang?

0:41:12 – Kay Zhang

No, I will sound like a broken record, because it still goes back to the SMART objectives. Because it has to be measurable. In order to know it has to be measurable, you have to have ways to measure and evaluate so that you actually can be informed. If it’s something that’s vague, we want to grow our customer base. How big do you want to grow? At what rate? Right, if you don’t have that set as a measurable objective, then there’s no way of knowing. So when you set it as a measurable objective and then you have a follow-up measure, then you will know, you’ll be informed.

0:41:49 – Kimberly King

Yeah, okay, that’s great. Many business owners, they’re not proficient in marketing, as we know. They know what their business does, but they don’t really know and understand the marketing angle of that. So how much time should they spend on marketing each week, especially if they’re not in the know?

0:42:09 – Kay Zhang

I think that you see a lot of small businesses, and people who are skilled at something, let’s say, I have some friends who are really good, they have passion about brewing their own beer, right. A lot of home brewers then become craft beer. They want to open a craft because they think they’re really good at brewing the beer. Then they can open a craft brewery. And I think the data shows that majority of them fail within a year, or two, and the reason for that is because they’re good at making the beer, but they’re not good at the business piece of it.

So I think the good news- we haven’t really mentioned AI today, but AI is the big talk today. I think small business owners and nonprofits like ourselves, we could probably take advantage of AI and utilize that resource and ask AI to come up- if we don’t have time to craft a consistent message every week, maybe ask AI to, okay, give me a 50 week or 52 week, you know message, short message I can post on social media and then you can, you know, monitor, you can actually modify a little bit every week and then post it on. Choose one platform, let’s say right and then, and see how it goes. So I think there’s a lot to be learned with AI and, as we all can right, we talk about that in our classrooms, but I think business can certainly take advantage of that as well.

0:43:40 – Kimberly King

100%. I think there’s again the plus side of that and, especially when you’re looking to the future and setting up a schedule, I think that AI is super useful. Finally, the last question is, what is a piece of advice that you would give to the entrepreneurs or the marketers just starting feel overwhelmed by budget constraints?

0:44:03 – Doctor Hatem Bata

Be patient, and I know that because I lost thousands of dollars starting my business. So don’t be disheartened. Especially, you will know what is success later on. Because, again, what we’re saying is different from- every industry is different. I work in healthcare, somebody else works in retail, someone else in online, so there is no magic stick or silver bullet for everyone. But the advice is be patient, be consistent and don’t get the failure the first year of failure get into you, because you will fail. Most businesses lose money in the first year, so you will lose money in the first year, so don’t define yourself by your failure. One of my professors gave me an F and told me that an F is a first attempt in learning.

0:45:14 – Kimberly King

I love that. That’s what F stands for now- the first attempt in learning. I love that. Great. Do you have any advice there?

0:45:24 – Kay Zhang

I agree, patience is very important and you know I go back to this- I would say three C’s: clarity, creativity and consistency. So limited budget doesn’t mean limited mindset. So have an open mind and be patient, have faith, just don’t try to do too much.

0:45:45 – Kimberly King

Excellent. I love that. It’s like the three C’s of diamonds, right. Thank you so very much for your time today and if you want more information, you can visit National University’s website at nu.edu. Thank you both so much.

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